Taking Dyslexia to College with Dan Jordan

Dan: 0:00

But that generational kind of stigma doesn't need to happen. You don't have to pass it down, is what I mean. and you can pass down advocacy. You can pass down the knowledge and you can pass on pretty much what I did with my son. Now I can pass on the ability to normalize what's going on because it is normal. It's normal to learn in a specific way for you. It's normal. Everybody has it. Everybody's got it. You just need certain things in certain ways and that's okay. And It doesn't mean you're not intelligent. It doesn't mean that you can't succeed. Doesn't mean you can't do what you want to do. It means you can. And that's really the overall message. And if my program can do that and have that impact in a generational kind of way, which I think it can, cuz you can't unlearn it, then it's gonna make things better down the road for an awful lot of people. And that's my goal.

Andrea: 0:52

that was Dan Jordan and he's talking about the stigma of having a learning difference. Dan is a college counselor on the east coast and his mission is to teach students whether they're headed off to trade school or college, how to advocate for what they need without fear or stigma, and how to do it without the help of their parents. Dan created a company called Accessing College, which walks parents and their students through the transition to college process. In this episode, Dan will discuss some of the topics covered in his book and in his programs. He has a free program and he has an inexpensive program. I'm talking under $30. These topics will empower parents and their young adults. For example, did you know that IEPs do not transfer over to college? Do you know that trade schools and colleges are not required to provide the same services that your child is accustomed to receiving in high school? Dan is also working to increase the graduation rates for students with learning differences, so stick around and see how he can get you and your young adult through one of life's greatest milestones

jeremiah: 2:22

Welcome to this episode, and today we have Dan Jordan, who's our guest on this podcast. Thank you for coming out.

Dan: 2:29

I appreciate it. Thank you very much for having me.

jeremiah: 2:32

So Dan, how did you get into the education field?

Dan: 2:35

I wasn't actually, I wasn't really into the education field. I was actually working community mental health and I was helping reunite families with Child Protective Services I was helping reunite them and oftentimes they would have learning disabilities. I had a combination of things that came together. So I had some experience working with, children that had IEPs and 5 0 4 plans and I always loved being on a college campus and as the therapist, it's probably the ideal place for me to be because I love that population and I love being on a college campus just because of what it entails to be there. There's a lot of great things about being at college and I just find it really energetic and I love that population. So I had the opportunity after, a long time trying to find a job in higher ed that I did. And part of that job was, was with accessibility. And that was a steep learning curve by the way because I had some working knowledge about it, but not in the detail that I got after being there for 10 years. So that was working with students with any kind of disability and making sure that they had access to the programs and to the campus that we have. So learning about that was dual role. So seeing people for therapy, but also seeing students to make sure that they had the access that they needed for their disability. So that's how I got there.

Andrea: 4:02

Can you explain a little bit about, uh, for our listeners who don't have, students currently in the special education system. What do you mean when you say IEPs and 504 plans?,

Dan: 4:15

Yeah. in K through 12, um, there are laws that govern students with disabilities and that entails the I D E A and it means the school identifies students who have disabilities and they provide the instruction in specific ways and they provide access, to the instruction and to the materials in ways that the student can maximize their ability to go ahead and learn it. How I differentiate IEPs and 5 0 4 plans. IEPs are for like learning disabilities and for other things. Um, but 5 0 4 plans are mostly for mental health and physical issues, let's say. So if a student has okay, juvenile diabetes, they'd be on a 5 0 4 plan. If a student has anxiety or ocd, they'd be on a 5 0 4 plan.

Andrea: 5:03

Okay. And then my other question is my knowledge as a special educator ends when, high school graduation occurs. does that IEP carry over to college? My understanding is that it does not. So it sounds like your role is to make sure the student with disabilities can access the college curriculum and, socialization. Despite their disability. And do you have to do that without the iep? Is there a new document you create? How does that work?

Dan: 5:33

Yeah, actually that's an excellent question to be quite honest. And it's one of the more prominent questions that I think parents have. So if I do a really good job answering this question then we can get rid of pretty much half of the confusion that parents have, So let me see if I can unconfuse people. Yeah, they don't transfer over. and it's one of the easier things to know that they don't transfer over. But even as of, the last couple of weeks that I was doing accessibility, and had that particular job duties, I would still have students that would come in and say, Hey, I need to transfer my IEP. And I'm like, Okay, I just brushed it off. I'm like, where'd you get that from? Oh, my special education person or my mom or whatever. And they got it from someone else who had this general kind of sense that yes, you do get accessibility. Yes you do. You can have some of the similar things. The process is incredibly different.

Andrea: 6:25

okay.

Dan: 6:26

And so to get on an IEP takes testing and all that other stuff, and the school has to identify In college, students have the right of self disclosure, which means if they want to go ahead and have accommodations or have access, to certain things to be not discriminated against from their disability, then. If there's certain things that they need, they have to self disclose what that is. And so every school, every college, even trade school will have an individual identified at that school that students that want to, that have certain needs, um, and they need accommodations or they need something in a particular way, they have somebody to go to at their particular school that handles those requests. Part of that process, students being able to go ahead and tell this staff person what it is about their disability, how it impacts on their education, how it impacts on homework, how it impacts on, access to the physical rooms, around college, all this different stuff, all these different areas. And they have to be able to describe that to the staff person. The staff person, the accessibility person, what I used to do, is I would take all that information and I would come up with a plan with them that's very individualized. ,cuz every student is slightly different, even though they may get the same accommodations, every student's different. So you have to individualize it. and sometimes it gets very specific. And that accessibility staff, like what I used to do, we would come up with plans for them that met what they needed. So if they had trouble, let's say with reading, and reading comprehension, they needed more time on tests, I would make sure that they got that. So it mimics some things that K through 12 does, in terms of that. And other times it couldn't, There are some differences between K12 and college and there's some things that I could not do that are more success oriented. College is merely about access. That's it. And so students have to self disclose. You come up with that plan, and then you get a list of accommodations and the coordinator helps, manage those types of things and teaches you how to use them, let's say, teaches you what to do. Cuz every school's a little bit different. Some people like actually handing a student physical letters of accommodation. And some people like to do it just because of sheer volume of stuff. They like to do it, just by over email or something like that. But some way, shape or form, the student has to advocate for themselves, and navigate college entirely on their own and independently, which is where I come in That's kind of sort of why I came up with all the things that I come up with. For what I do and students just in general just have a really hard time with saying what their disability really is and describing it in a way that another person can understand. there's a lot of of nuance there. students who have physical and mental health issues, they pretty much know how to describe them really, really well because they live them pretty much every day. and they have multiple opportunities to go ahead and reiterate that to another person cuz they have multiple doctor appointments periodically. They have to look at their symptoms pretty much every day. Students with learning disabilities do not have that same opportunity. They don't. Um, and for whatever reason, I haven't been able to figure it out, but they don't, they generally don't have the same type of awareness and same type of, of. Knowledge about themselves being able to describe it.

jeremiah: 9:59

Yeah. We didn't practice it. and like, I said in the first episode, I found out that I had dyslexia, like after graduation. So I didn't even have time to like really understand what dyslexia was or like, what it really meant.

Andrea: 10:14

In grad school you get a little bit of everything, so you're like a jack of all trades, master of none. And I think as a teacher, the students come to the P P T meetings and that's a meeting where the student helps write their goals and objectives for that year and talks about what they need. But typically it's the adults making those decisions for the student. I don't really see the student and the families having a lot of input so they don't get a chance to practice, self-advocacy. So I can see by the time they get to college, it's not a skill that they even have. It's unfortunate. I think there needs to be more emphasis on that.

Dan: 10:50

Yeah. We saw that firsthand. It's correct. There's a lot of, and this is not just me, this is like my colleagues that were in the accessibility field that still do that. They all agree that students that have learning disabilities have the hardest time describing what they need and why. And just being a parent, my son, did not get, and me as parents, we didn't get enough introduction into the IEP process and the IDEA and those types of things. I naturally had probably a little bit of a head start, just because of what I do. But I still don't know all the things that I probably could have known about IEPs, that may have helped out that much more. so you have this gap in knowing what laws actually apply and why, and you have a gap in information that is not really explained. And so I saw that as a parent myself, but I also saw that as a professional trying to get information from students so I can give them what they need. Um, and that's one of the things that, students need to know when they go to college. You're responsible for giving the information. My responsibility is to get the information and make sure that you have access. And that's a dance.

jeremiah: 12:11

Mm-hmm.

Dan: 12:11

and sometimes it's like pulling teeth. And I'm pretty good at asking questions. Like I've been in the mental health field for quite some time. It's a couple of decades now. I'm pretty good at asking some questions. But unfortunately sometimes it's really difficult. And so I would have to go ahead and talk to parents, and tell them, and ask them, Hey, I need your help because I'm just having trouble, getting some information here. And the parents would have their understanding cuz they live and breathe it. students don't know some basic stuff. One of the things I found was students didn't know the name of their disability. They kind of sort of knew the category, like, well, I have trouble reading, but they really didn't know what the name of it was. if I've met a student that never read their evaluation, I've met every single one of them. So that's common deficit two. Um, nobody's really explaining these things to them. And should you know the basics? Sure. I think you should know the basics. and there's statistics out there, Jeremiah, you're not alone in, in what happened to you. There's an awful lot of students. Uh, I think the statistic is 70% of students that have a learning disability when they graduate college, they no longer think they have a disability. And that I think is a tragic statistic. That's a statistic that I want to absolutely eliminate from all the statistics that possibly could be eliminated. And I think it's an easy one to eliminate. and I think that stops a generational gap too. If students really had the information, I think it would stop a generational gap.

jeremiah: 13:47

So my next question is, what made you want to start, your program called Accessing College?

Dan: 13:55

Yeah. The title can be a little, like some people have said, Hey, why Accessing College? And it's a little, not very many people know that terminology. But that's what we do. It's a coming, it's a budding name for offices for students with disabilities. It's no longer the Office for Students of Disabilities, It's sometimes it's the Accessibility Office or, Access Services or something like that. Which is, every college calls it something different, but there's some consensus now where they're taking disability language out of that and making more on here's what we provide. And we provide students with disabilities access. That's what we do. And so that's really what it is. But I think it's almost like a misnomer actually. Like I provide access to a lot of different things, which is the program itself is designed to give students the information and self-awareness that's missing. They didn't get it through K through 12. I saw it and my son was just lucky enough to have me. And I was like, I saw the stigma. I heard the stigma from students. I saw the lack of information. I saw how much that hurt for these students coming in. And they would be put in a situation where, here's a stranger here, do it on their own, without any information, without any training, without any kind of background. And they're like, Ah, my mom said I need to do this on my own And I'm like, I'm great for independence. That's great. But you're thrust into a situation where you're at an informational deficit and there's a power differential between that person. That's not necessarily something that should be there. The student themselves should be empowered for asking for what they need and getting what they need. And I'm just the person who makes that happen. That's pretty much it. And so when they go to a disability officer, there shouldn't be a power differential at all. There should be somebody who has the information so they can make that happen for that person. But I saw a lot of students that didn't have that, and they weren't empowered. They didn't know how to, ask for what they need cuz they couldn't describe it. It was really hard for them. And I have to say, like I made sure that students had it right and had it right the first time. but you can always come back. You can always come back and ask for more if your disability just seems to hit a class, in a different way. Can always come back and ask for more. That's something that's common and something that's not very well known. But students can come back and ask for more if they need to. but I have to provide that space for them in offices for accessibility. I have to provide that space for them. And so I would see this on a daily basis. And I would hear the stigma and I would hear how hurt they are and I would hear how scared they are. And I was like, I can't have that happen to my son. I can't.

Andrea: 16:44

There's Where is the stigma coming from? The stigma from professors saying, I'm not gonna level the playing field.

Dan: 16:54

No, no, this is really like a K through 12 kind of reaction. it's, they were afraid. They were like, How do I have to, tell my professors what my disability is? And I'm like, No, you just have to hand 'em the letter. You can do it during their office hours. That's very private. and they're like, how much information should I give? And like, for tests, what do I do for that? Do I have to stay in the room or do I, like if I have to leave, like how do I explain to people why I'm not there? And so that was a stigma kind of thing. And that was directly from K through 12 where they were taken out of a room to take a test or you have to not finish the test in the room, or you'd have to be somewhere else. And so they would have to need to explain why they had certain things, why they were taken out of a room, let's say. And that's a social stigma. and that's just generally feeling uncomfortable. and I think it's also generally because you're not told why you need certain things and why you need to have speech therapy, let's say, or why you need to have, speech to text or text to speech kind of software. You're not really told why. And sometimes parents don't wanna tell their children why, because they wanna protect their kid from that kind of stigma, which I think is, I understand it, but I was like, No, let's normalize this. And so that's what we told our son. So we consulted with some people when he was, and this is all when I started getting my job. This is like two years in. My son gets diagnosed with dyslexia and I'm like seeing all the deficits and I'm like, I need to normalize this. This is not about you having some kind of deficit. This is not about you being less intelligent. This is not about you not being able to learn stuff. This is about you having something that your brain just doesn't process information the same way as me who does not have dyslexia. So you have something that's there where you just need certain things in a certain way. So you can go ahead and learn the information. asking somebody with dyslexia to go ahead and read a paragraph out loud in, K through 12 in like 10th grade is like, No, why no? Why are you doing that? That's not something that's appropriate. And so stigma would come from that. Sometimes it's a teaching methods, sometimes it's just a social kind of stuff. And sometimes it's just you don't know what you need to know in order to advocate for yourself to say, I'm not comfortable with doing that because I need to use my text to speech so I can understand what Shakespeare is, right? Like Shakespeare is the worst thing in the world for somebody with learning disability to actually read. my son had horrible time with it. I had a horrible time with it and I don't even understand it anyway. But he's sitting there trying to go, Dad, what do I do? And I'm like, Yeah, you have to advocate for yourself. So I didn't want my son to have the same experience that I was hearing about. and I thought it was largely unnecessary. So I started teaching him the things that I started teaching the students that I come and see. I started teaching them. And I'm like, Okay, this is all about you being an advocate. So this is why I didn't change, the, accommodation letters, like how instructors find out I, these are yours, they're not mine, I don't own them. These are yours. They belong to you. Um, it's your disability. You're the one who has to speak up for yourself and, and figure it out. I have the opportunity to go ahead and tell you everything you need to know so you can go and do so because I an information deficit to come from my office. Cause that's not giving you access. It's not giving access at all. So I wanted my son to have this information about his own disabilities. So we say dyslexia, loud and proud man all the time. We had heard horror stories, about. Dyslexia in and of itself, and the fight to just get it said out loud. and so we were lucky enough to have an assessor who is very versed in dyslexia and said, Yeah, this is very common. This is on par with dyslexia. And we're like, Can you put that in the evaluation? And we're like, Yes, I can. And we're like, Score. It was like you had just kicked a 70 yard field goal to win the game with like no time on the clock. It was just that kind of moment. And from then on it was an easier time to get things. There was no fight in the IEP meetings, there was nothing there. And so getting the services wasn't the problem. it was really gonna be the social issues, and possibly him feeling a certain kind of way about himself. and we didn't want that to happen. So I had seen that happen. I saw the negative effects and I'm like, I just, No, that's, that's just not something that I want for him. I want him to be able to speak up for what he needs no matter what. and to this day, he is probably one of the best advocates. He's better than I am,

Andrea: 21:53

Mm-hmm.

Dan: 21:53

Cause sometimes I just won't, you know, restaurant, I just won't send the burger back. I wanted a medium well it's medium, like I can deal with it. Whatever .My son would send it back. This is just an example of advocacy and how it relates to everything else in your life, not just in a restaurant. He had covid, and I'm taking him to the ER. And we're waiting forever. And this is like January, right? During the height of Covid.

jeremiah: 22:19

Mm-hmm.

Dan: 22:20

And we're waiting there for like two and two and a half hours. he had already had his blood work and all this other stuff. So what does he do? He walks up to the nurse's station and goes, Hey, I see that you have a nurse practitioner. Can I just see that person? Cuz if we have blood work and stuff like that, I just need to know what I need to do in order to get better. Can you make that happen? They made it happen in about 10 minutes and other people had been there forever. Like people that been there before we got there, they're still sitting in the same place. People would not talk to them and he just goes up and just does it. And we got out of there probably about 20 minutes after they saw him. And I was like, Do you know how rare that is? I'm talking to him in the car and I don't know how much of this conversation he remembers cuz he was sick, but I was like, Do you know how rare that is? I'm like, Nobody else got up and talked. Nobody else got up out of their seat and asked for what they needed. I'm like, Do you know how cool that actually is? I'm like, Don't ever stop. I'm like, You did it in the right way. You talked about what you needed, you said it in a socially appropriate way and all you did was ask. That's it. All you did was ask. And this is, you know what the, the cliche that if you never asked the answer is always gonna be no. And it just doesn't accept that.

jeremiah: 23:40

Mm-hmm.

Dan: 23:41

So he's gonna go ahead and

Andrea: 23:42

I love that love that

Dan: 23:43

It's just this is how advocacy works. and that's why I want students with learning disabilities to have that basic knowledge. So they can go ahead and do that and have it bleed over into every other area of their life really. So it's not just about school at all.

Andrea: 24:02

Absolutely. It's hard enough as an adult, Right? As an adult asking for what we need at work or in any setting, like you said, there's like a power, element like with everything. Like I never realized you can fire your attorney if they're not meeting your needs and you can do research and choose the right surgeon so that you get the type of surgery in the way. We're just conditioned to accept what we're given. That we're not the experts, but we are. That's correct. The experts of ourselves.

jeremiah: 24:32

Yeah.

Dan: 24:32

And that's exactly what students with learning disabilities need to know when they go to college. Cause graduation rates are much lower. They just are, You just have more stuff to do. And it is hard. and college is harder than, than high school. College is much harder. and it's a transition in and of itself, and that's hard enough for anybody going to college. Transition from like K through 12 to college is, it's scratching the record automatically. And some people adjust rather quickly to it. but students with disabilities, especially learning disabilities, it just take a little bit longer to do so. And there is some comorbidity with mental health kind of issues as well, but, it takes longer, because the struggle is real. It's not a made up one. there's more to consider. There's more to adjust to, and there's more things that you need to consider if you're a student with a disability going into college. There's more things that you need to know, and the less you know, the harder it is. so it's an adjustment. And so it, knowing going in is gonna help you out. so some of the information I provide is just the reality of what college is about, so you can prepare yourself. So that's a transition for everybody. Parents are, like you said, they're the ones who are mostly speaking at these parent teacher meetings

jeremiah: 25:56

You talk about, it's a transition. Do you have any material? Would you recommend for our listeners, can be for students or for parents?

Dan: 26:05

Yes. I do, I have information about that. So there's a free, pamphlet that I put out. It's a checklist. So that part of the confusion is not knowing what to do when you need to request accommodations for college. That's part of the transition. So it's just a quick checklist, and it's free and it just walks you through everything you need to do in order to make sure that you're going through that process and you have everything done. And it's pretty much in, in order. So you've check one, go down the list, and then it gives you some questions so you can help advocate for yourself after you've gotten the accommodations too. So it's questions asked that disability person. As well. So what do I need to do for tests? Where are they, Are they in a separate location or not? so those types of things. What do I do with the accommodation letters? Who do I inform? That kind of stuff.

Andrea: 27:01

Can we back it up a little bit? Like, how would parents even find you and find access to your pamphlet or your services?

Dan: 27:09

So, um, I'm on Facebook. It's accessing college on Facebook. Same thing on Instagram. And Instagram is probably the primary one that I'm utilizing right now. I also have my own website, which is accessing college.com. and I run a blog that's there that goes through a lot of these transition issues. So I just transitioned my son to college, both of my sons to college. and so I have a blog about that, what to consider beforehand. Best laid. Plans often don't work out sometimes. So you can prepare as much as you can. And then there's some stuff that, like, I've been doing this a long time, but then I still miss some stuff and I'm like okay, if I'm missing some stuff, other people are definitely missing some stuff. And so what's that about?

jeremiah: 27:57

Mm-hmm.

Dan: 27:58

how did I, how did I miss it? What did I miss? And so I write about it. So it's all up there. The blog is really a good place to get some of that information. I also have a free training about college transitions for students with disabilities. There were some problems. I had to take it down from the website, so I'm gonna put it back up. It'll be back up. But I do have a free training for that, that walks parents who actually have students with learning disabilities, walks 'em through. It's not just, it's the same information for any college student really, but I emphasize what's necessary for students with learning disabilities to know and for, for parents to know. and so I walked them through that. so there's some articles that I wrote on the blog that it's like, have something to do with if you're gonna, go to a college and just to see what it's all about. Well, how do you do the college tour in a way that makes sense for you as a student with a disability? How do you do that? and what kind of things do you need to be looking at for that.. So that information's out there. the information about college transition is all on, my social media, so it's all there as well. So in a brief format, by the way. So it's a little snippets of things. so people can find me there. People are free to go ahead and ask me questions. Feel free to DM me. Feel free to send me an email. Those things are there. If you look on my blog, it takes you right to the freebie to download. There's a little button at the bottom of every article. So it's right there. so you can get to it there. You can just go to my social media and ask me, Hey, what's the link for that? And I'll send it to you. It's pretty easy to do.

Andrea: 29:31

So, let's say parents, access your blog and your free training, and they decide they really need more support, um, a little bit more handholding, step by step, week by week, month by month. How do they go about engaging your services and what does it look like? What does working with Dan Jordan look like?

Dan: 29:48

Uh, it's an up and coming thing. I don't have that at present. I have done coaching like that before.

Andrea: 29:56

Okay.

Dan: 29:56

And I like it actually. I like it a lot to be honest. And I find that it's actually one of those things, it's an offshoot of therapy. coaching's drastically different. I'm not doing therapy. Um, but do I tend to do that in a really good way? Yeah. I tend to do so because it's very individualized. so they would get something that is very individualized for them. When I revamp things and I put this back up, yeah, handholding is gonna be part of it. Just people need that right now. Um, that is something that students need. It's something that parents need. And can I hold you through a parent, through, giving up the reins to being their primary advocate from K through 12? And you have to give that up. That's a process and that's a difficult thing for a parent to do, but it makes it easier if you have somebody who's there saying, Hey, it's okay. I've been there, done that. I had to do that myself. Let me show you how. Um, and that's an easier thing to do, especially in the back end. If what's going to happen is you have a very, very knowledgeable student. You have a very capable student. They're confident in what they can say and what they can't say, and what they know and what they don't know and what they want to do. Now they have choice. That's a gift that I wanna give to everybody, to be quite honest, is just having the freedom of choice because you know yourself very well and then you can make the choice as to whether or not you want to pursue something, accommodations or not. And now you know why. You can explain it really easily to anyone who asks if you want to, by the way. you have the right of self disclosure all the way along so it's easy to go ahead and say, Hey, speak up for yourself. it's a lot harder to do in practice and it's a lot harder to do if you're really not prepared for it. so I help people, I help parents transition out. I help students transition in, and that's part of what they need to do anyway, just as a young adult to become more responsible, is to take over the reigns for their own learning. cuz in college you are an adult and nobody else is gonna do it for you. and so we want them to be able to have, at least in that part, that transition to becoming adulthood can actually take place really, really well, given some just slight instruction, just given some, a little bit of hand holding in all of that. And that is something that, that, I believe is necessary and something that works. Cuz some people just need accountability and some people just need to know that it's okay. Look, what you're doing is hard and it's difficult and it's gonna be a little bit hard. Um, but the benefit on the back end is you have you transition out of being the advocate. So that's a really good thing and gives you something to transition out of cuz you're transitioning out of everything all at once. Like, it's like somebody just ripped the bandaid off your entire body and now it's like, wait a second. Uh, I'm, I don't have access to them 24 7. What are they doing? Are they in their room? Where are they? Like, are they alive? Uh, all these kind of typical parent things. At least with this one I can give you some peace of mind. I can give you some. Solace. I can give you something there where you know as a parent you did the best thing that you could to make sure that they know themselves really well and they can advocate for what they need and when you can advocate for what you need. There is some research that says if you advocate for what you need and you get what you need and you use what you need, your academics become that much better. And therefore that statistic where students with learning disabilities aren't graduating at the same rate, can now go ahead and do so because that playing field is level now. And so yeah, having a hand holding situation is normal and it's okay to ask for that help and they can ask me for it .Really. It's something that I love doing and it's something that I feel is absolutely necessary. So yeah, they can get that and they don't have to really, cuz not everybody's gonna want to have their hand held. And so there's ways of, of just engaging in the program where you can hear me right? You can hear me, and you don't need to see me. You don't need to have that, You don't need me to hold your hand a little bit. Um, and my book. My book is up there on Amazon and that's something that people can utilize in its strictly easiest format. It's, it's the easiest format. So there's a lot packed into a tiny little book, that gives you a tremendous amount of value. And you'll hear of, like, people talk about transformation, but I guarantee if you go through that book, you're not gonna be the same person. You're not gonna be the same kid with a learning disability, and you're certainly, you're not gonna be the same parent. So it's something that's the easiest way of doing it. and I would suggest that parents, if they go through that book, each chapter is just a week and some weeks you can double up, right? But if you go through that book, each chapter should just be a week and you just build in repetition from there. So if you're talking about, there's a whole chapter on learn the name of of your disability. So if that's what I'm advising your parent to do, I'm like, Yeah, you ask them pretty much all the time, Hey, have a good day at school. What's the name of your disability? Okay, cool. See you. You get in the car. Hey, what's the name of your disability? Like that kind of thing. So you can actually go ahead and, and teach them some repetition. Um, because that sometimes is necessary for people and it also normalizes it. It's okay to say it out loud, It really is. And it takes a stigma away from a lot of that. There's a lot going on in a short program, I can guarantee that. So transitioning out, transitioning in and being safe about it, um, and feeling confident about it. And also, the things that are just mentioned, there's a lot going on really to normalize and destigmatize and give you the information that you need so you can go ahead and feel okay about you really.

jeremiah: 35:56

Mm-hmm. The program that I have up on on my webpage is not that expensive.

Andrea: 36:03

Right.

Dan: 36:03

it's almost as much as the book, honestly. I think it's almost as much as the book. I think it's like 20 bucks. and I think the one that I actually have that gives you more I think it's like 25, 26 27. 27. I haven't looked at it in quite some time. So that's what it is right now. Will it go up? Probably, probably, but it's not gonna be so insane that people are gonna look at it and go, What am I doing? that's not my purpose, that's not what I want. I want people, like I said, I want those statistics to be almost zero, I want that 70% to be like, off that amount. Yeah, look, if I describe my program, there's one program that is really cheap, but it gives it to you all in one shot. So there's no separate modules or anything like that. So that's the cheapest format. But then again, like you have to go back and it's a little clunky to do. So I use the other one that gives modules. Each chapter is its own module. Okay. And as I throw in some other stuff in there about how to coach your child, how to go ahead and institute some repetition in there. There's an introduction to all of it too. and so walks you through in each chapter is maybe, I tried to make it in between 10 and 15 minutes cuz we know parents are busy. We know that it's, and it's not complicated information, let's put it that way. And I think one of my strengths is actually making the complex. Very easy to understand. So there's nothing in there that you can't understand really. I'd be taken aback. I'd be like, Dang, I didn't do my job on that one. Why? How can I break that down better? And I'd probably wanna go and rerecord that model. But just to get back to your point, it's the stuff that I've recorded for, for the program is just really easy. 10, 15 minutes. it actually comes with a workbook, by the way.

Andrea: 37:57

Oh, nice.

Dan: 37:57

So you just get to print it out and just go ahead and do it. And so I don't have the expertise to actually do something in like a, a fillable PDF somehow I have, ah, god, God, I've tried so many times to do it. So that's sort of the next phase. But it does come with the workbook. And the workbook basically walks you through the questions so you can, cuz some people like writing stuff down, some people want that. so however you learn, whether it's auditory or whether it's kinesthetic or both, you can certainly go ahead and do that. And it's easily digestible stuff. it's easy questions. I think the only module students are probably need to spend more time on is the one where it walks you through, your accommodations and why you use certain things and why you don't. and probably the module where you're asking questions about your own disability. And walking you through that. So the rest of it is a setup for those two modules and it sets you up with the information that you need to know why college is different than high school, and legal ramifications of that. I don't spend a lot of time on it in that module, but the legal stuff is strewn throughout every module because it's hard for me to talk about accommodations without talking about some of the legal stuff. And it's hard for me to talk in the module about why you need to, speak up for yourself and know your disability and learn about your disability without talking about why that's necessary. And that begins with some of the legal stuff too. So it's strewn throughout, so it's not very heavy on it. I could grow down that rabbit hole really easily and I've been down that rabbit hole a couple of times. And it's not a fun place to be, man. It really isn't. But, anytime you start talking about legal stuff, people's eyes start glazing over and that kinda stuff. And I'm like, you don't really need to know some of that stuff. You need to know the basics and you need to know why you're doing certain things and you need to know why, the office runs the way that it runs. and then what your legal kind of responsibilities are at, regarding, confidentiality and regarding your records and privacy and what do you do if something goes wrong. You just need to know those particular things. and it walks you through all of it really.

Andrea: 40:11

Okay, great. So what's coming up for Dan Jordan? What can we look forward to? Any other books? Any sequels,

Dan: 40:20

Yes. Not books. I have a couple other things because, I revamped my social media. so it's, I take a more holistic approach. First I was just about doing the accessibility piece and I'm like, I'm denying myself the opportunity to be very genuine in the fact that I also cover student success and student wellness. So that's the holistic approach that I'm taking on my social media and even on my blog. So I'm trying to take that approach to show that it's, yeah, you can take care of accessibility and you can get the accommodations that you need. You can know about yourself, but also part of that is that self-awareness and self knowledge is part of that self-determination, is all about making sure that you're well. And making sure that you have the strategies that you know can work for you for college. And so part of that college transition is setting yourselves up with the routines and structures and habits that work, because October's coming, And October's really difficult month for most college students. No matter who you are, no matter if you're junior or senior or freshman. But if you're a freshman in your first semester and it's October and you're not ready for it, you're gonna get thrown for a loop. And that's something that I wanna mitigate through just having some stuff. So my social media just has some awareness around that holistically. So student wellness, maintaining your own wellness in a way that makes sense for you, your success strategies, but also important information there for that. Every Tuesday I'm putting out, a myth buster. That's a common sort of myth about accessibility and college. And then on Thursdays there's something in there for parents, to either encourage them to like, Hey, text your son. You know what I mean? Text your kid, call them if you're thinking about them, let them know, that kind of deal. Encouraging them. So some of the information that I have out there for students is also for parents, so they can remind their student to go ahead and take care of themselves. Hey, did you set up a routine for October? October sucks. And this goes back to the free training.

jeremiah: 42:23

Yeah.

Dan: 42:23

Of here, let me orient you to college. Like, because how many people know that October sucks? How many people know? No, not very many.,

Andrea: 42:30

why midterms?

Dan: 42:31

September is getting used to, Yeah, it's midterms. Some colleges don't have midterms. but it's really like you get oriented to the class. You get oriented to, the information. And then October is when your first assignments are coming. Your first tests are coming, sometimes assignments, tests, and presentations all in the same, same week. And it's really, for some reason, October is really where the academic work and studying and doing all of that comes into play. And so the same thing happens in March, late February, mostly March. And then, it tapers off a little bit, just cuz you have some holidays, you have Thanksgiving and you have like maybe a fall break. you have spring break in there somewhere. and then it's just really kind of gung-ho until the end. and if you're not ready for that, that's problematic. You're not gonna do as well as you wanted to and you're gonna have a lot more stress than necessary. Not that you're not gonna be stressed, but it's a different story if you have routines and structures in place for that and you're like, Hey, I can get through this. It's a lot, but I can get through it. Versus, Oh my God, what do I do? What do I do? And then you go to the counseling services center, you go to the academic resources place and get some academic coaching to learn the things that you probably should have set in place for September. and so it reduces an awful lot of difficulty, just by having some things in place that are pretty easy things to do. Like, let's just say it out loud. Another thing to say out loud is time management for most students in college sucks. It's one of the more difficult things, and I don't know why, to be quite honest. It's an easy thing to do, in managing your time and managing those tasks. So that is one of the things that's coming up. I have a course coming up on time management.

Andrea: 44:20

OOOOOO. See, I don't think that is easy.

Dan: 44:21

Got it. For some people it is, honestly, but it doesn't need to be so much for, for students. it doesn't need to be for college. You can still have fun. You can still institute your own take on your own time management to get stuff done. So if it's an elusive kind of concept, it'll bring it back to something that's a little more concrete and make it practical for you. I love Jordan Peterson. if you have a chance to look at anything he says he's a brilliant dude. One of his quotes that he told his students in a lecture, um, was, Your time management is not a prison. And I was like, Whoa, okay. And it's not. And he went on to describe, it's something that maximizes your ability to go ahead and meet your responsibilities and that's better than the alternative. And I'm like, Yeah, it really is. It's better than the alternative. It truly is. And again, it's about, the stress and anxiety. It could all be avoided and you just institute some simple things. It's not complicated let's say. It might be difficult for certain people to do, but it's not complicated. And so that course is coming up. and since I'm in mental health, I understand that students with mental health issues that's on the rise, that's absolutely one of the more prominent categories of students with disabilities coming through. And we know students with learning disabilities have a comorbidity with some mental health issues, ADD anxiety, depression, those types of things sometimes come together for it. So they occur together. that's just what comorbid means. so they come together. And so it's, it's important for students with mental health issues because they have a lot more to, to think about in order to be, well, in order to maintain their wellness when they go to college. They have a lot more. And sometimes you may not be able to get what you need, in the way that you're used to needing it. And so there's a lot more to consider, such as, We don't have session limits at our school where I work. we're very proud of that fact. But some schools only give you six. Wow. Only six. what if you're bipolar? What if you have generalized anxiety disorder, like those types of things, It's longstanding like, and you want to go 500 miles away or 1500 miles away to a school that doesn't have the resources to meet that particular need for you. How do you navigate that? And so again, it's about going into all of that with open eyes. So program for that is coming. One of the more ones is a training for, and I've already put the training on. I presented it, the American College Counseling Association. So I taught them about accessibility and what you need to look for as a therapist and what you need to know. So that training is, I've already done the training. I just need to record it and put it out there, so that's coming too. and the other kind of highlight is exactly what you touched on Andrea earlier, which is using a lot more of myself. And putting that out there. So I can go ahead and walk people through a program personally. So I can go ahead and have them contact me and have them ask me questions. And be as a that consultant let's say, or, as part of that program. And hey, why don't you talk to me afterwards? That's probably what's going to happen, is having some contact afterwards. Hey, what did you learn? What was good about it? What questions can I answer for you right now? And just having it as part of that program. Cuz I think students want that. I think parents want that. I think it's necessary, especially with this generation. My generation, not so much, my Jeremiah, your generation and everybody that's coming afterwards. Handholding is important and I don't mean that derogatorally at all. I just mean that support, It's a better way of saying it. I'm just gonna say that I'm gonna use that from now on support so I can support that transition in the best way possible. And yeah. I want to be able to do that for people because I, it's, it's necessary. Is it necessary for parents to transition out? Yeah. 100%. Is it necessary for students to transition in? Yeah. 100%. Do you need the information in order to advocate for yourself? Mm-hmm. Yeah. I think that, and it's a generational thing. You're never gonna unlearn it, ever. It's like two plus two is four. You're never gonna unlearn that. And it's gonna become so routine for you to do that, that you're not gonna care if you leave a classroom to go ahead and take a test or use what works for you. and you're gonna be able to go ahead and say, Hey, uh, you have this. Guess what? You're my friend. You have this. Why don't you go to the accessibility office and tell them? Cuz maybe you need some certain things in a certain way. So you're spreading the advocacy around. And then as you get older, and if that, if it is dyslexia, your parents have dyslexia, they haven't been through this, but if you become a parent, you don't have to go ahead and have the same experience happen to your children because you're talking about it. You're letting them know, Hey, I'm dyslexic and it's okay. You may have it. And if we do, and now you know what to look for. Right? You know what to look for. And you get that advantage of having gone through that. So you don't, you're not doing some generational stigma. Well, stigmatism What? No stigma. So I said it wrong. I was on a roll. I make up words all the time. I was on a roll.

jeremiah: 50:01

All right. Thank you Dan Jordan, for coming on this podcast we appreciate you coming on here.

Andrea: 50:07

Yeah. Thanks for your time, Dan

Dan: 50:08

It's been fun. Yeah, thank you for having me. This has been an awful lot of fun. Um, and if I can come back at some point in time, if you guys have more questions or you need something else, I'm more than happy to,

jeremiah: 50:18

we will have you come back. Mm-hmm.

Dan: 50:21

Absolutely. Happy to.

Andrea: 50:22

Okay. Just to recap, the name of Dan's book is Self Advocacy for Higher Education, A step by step Guide to Preparing to Request Accommodations in College. You can learn more about this book as well as Dan's programs on his website@accessingcollege.com. The book is available on Amazon, and you can also find Dan on Instagram. Okay, so now you know how to connect with Dan to get some valuable accessibility, knowledge, tips, and solutions. So students, whether you're headed to trade school or college, Dan can empower you to get what you need to succeed without relying on your parents for your advocacy needs. Parents, Dan can teach you new ways to support your child as you relinquish your full-time role as their advocates. So what do you think? We'd love to share your insights on a future episode. Leave us a voicemail or an email on our website at www.chatswith2dyslexics.com. Don't forget to use the number two. You'll also find our show notes and transcripts here. And while you're there, you can support us by buying us a coffee. Thanks for telling your friends about us. It helps us grow our community of empowered humans. Thanks again, listeners, and we'll see you next time.